DKP Systems

[NiennaMiriel]

Can I tell you how much I wish that I knew something about WoW scripting, so that I could just create my own mod for a DKP system instead of trying to learn someone else's?

It's really frustrating when I can't seem to find one that will do exactly what I want it to.

What have y'all used for DKP mods, and how do you like them?

Our system is morphing into the following:

2 points for being there at the start
2 points for each boss
2 points for being there at the end
Bonus points as decided by GM

Fixed prices for items (no bids)

I'm so lost with all of these systems.

[xpolockx]

My guild uses the HOB DKP mod for item cost http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addo ... -v251.html and found that it works just fine with a close to zero sum system. Basically the HOB DKP mod just gives an item its DKP value by the stats it has on it, so it's what we found to be the most fair. We use CTraidtracker to track who's there and who gets what loot and then parse it into our EQDKP database.

I say a "close to zero sum" because it has been inflated a little in the past when we started BWL - we gave bonus dkp for coming and wiping on Razorgore. Once we bribed people with some dkp you'd be surprised how many more people started showing up We then got Razor down in about 3 weeks, and about a month later we got Firemaw to 20% (last night - we'll get him next time )

We do have dkp penalties for going afk without notice, signing up and not showing, etc. Seems kind of confusing but it's really not too bad. It's really just a (close to) zero-sum system with set item cost. Way back in the day, before we used CTraidtracker and EQDKP, we used the nurfed dkp mod and did all the calculations on an MS excel spreadsheet. Now that was rough

Anyway, this probably confused you more than helped you... sorry I'm not better at explaining it.

[Skyfire]

Lol.

We give out free DKP for going to AQ20 and ZG. I'll have to post something about that, since both instances are essentially "free loot" now. >_>

The kind of DKP system your guild's running will become inflated very quickly, especially if item prices are below the amount you're earning each boss.

The flip side to that, is if your item prices are too high. In which case, it becomes deflated.

How much does each item cost if it's fixed? If it were a straight-bid system, I might have more faith in it...

[xpolockx]

Were you talking to me Skyfire? Or to Nienna? I'd assume Nienna, since our system has worked quite well for the past 8 months or so

We don't do DKP for ZG or AQ20 - it's rolls based on reputation, i.e. neutral /random 20, friendly /random 40, honored /random 60, revered /random 80, exalted /random 100 - so that the people who put the most effort into running them all the time have the best chance at getting items. Of course, it relies on the honor system, but no system is perfect.

Of course different guilds use different systems, this is just what we've come up with Good luck in getting your system figured out, as it can be pretty tough.

[Skyfire]

I'm not quite sure why I posted.

[nudave]

May be a stupid question but...What is DKP?

[Skyfire]

You'll find out when you hit 60.

[oiseaux]

Dragon Kill Points if I am not mistaken. You gain these points for attendance to raids, guild events, donating mats(which I think is a bad idea), donating gold(another bad idea in my eyes). These systems can work if inflation and deflation is controlled, but almost every guild I have seen cannot figure it out.

[Skyfire]

A pure Zero-Sum DKP system will keep inflation and deflation exactly zero.

The problem with a pure ZSDKP system is that there is no incentive to work on new bosses.

[xpolockx]

A pure Zero-Sum DKP system will keep inflation and deflation exactly zero.

The problem with a pure ZSDKP system is that there is no incentive to work on new bosses.

Exactly... it's why many guilds do fine in MC but fail at BWL - because a lot of the bosses take more than just a few tries to learn. My guild had been on Razorgore for about a month of solid tries but couldn't down him because we had trouble getting the same people to come out to every fight. We had said we wouldn't offer bonus dkp for any reason when we first started our ZSDKP system, but once we began to offer some to come and wipe in BWL, it worked out a lot better. Now that we have up through Firemaw on farm, we have stopped giving the bonus dkp except when we down a boss for the first time.

Inflation is unfortunate, but pretty likely to happen unless you have an entire raid group of hardcore raiders completely committed to getting through content regardless of how many wipes it takes. If inflation is carefully controlled, it won't wreck the system; but if it's not, it can easily make dkp essentially valueless.

It's probably a bad idea to give out dkp in a zero sum system for anything besides the items that drop off a boss and if necessary the aforementioned bonus dkp for wiping on new bosses and/or guild first kills of bosses. The closer you can stay to zero-sum, the better.

There are other systems for dkp besides zero-sum that include item bidding and such, but I don't have a real handle on how they work exactly, so I'm not going to try to explain them (though if someone else has had experience with them they should definitely explain it if they can .)

Keeping dkp fair is probably the toughest thing about raiding as a guild. That's my opinion, at least. The most important thing is that the GM and officers decide together on a system and then stick to it, with any necessary changes being agreed upon by the leadership team before they're implemented.

Sorry I'm so long-winded... comes from being a teacher, I guess.

[Skyfire]

Try dividing by each item value by 41 instead of 40 when determining how much DKP each person has earned.

Use that 41st person as "the bank" and shell out DKP from there, instead of freely distributing it for incentive.

It is another's idea that someone on my forums posted. He was a former GM, and he wrote about 10 items or so that could make running a guild go smoother.

[xpolockx]

That's actually a pretty good idea; No one's ever brought that up at our officer meetings before. Maybe I will

[Skyfire]

After thinking about it, might wanna make "the bank"'s share of the profit closer to 10% straight.

Else, you're going to only be putting in like 50-60 dkp per MC, and about the same farming up to Ebonroc (or wherever you are... )

[Cira_warlock]

My guild on Gilneas does it as this:

On time for Raid: 3 pts.
Each Boss: 1 pt.
Each purple epic: 1 pt.
Each orange legendary: Usually 50 pts. (rare)

We have a private bidding system for non class specific items where people bid what they think the item is worth and then take the second highest bid, add 1 and that is what the winner pays.

Class specific pieces all go for 1 point. If multiple bids are received, then the loot person random rolls 1 to ?? (however many ppl bid) and the person that sent their bid in the number that was rolled gets the item. We figure that only that class can use the item, so why waste DKP on those things when they could be used on non-class specific items.

This has been working very well for my guild. We don't have members hording epics nor do the classes stab each other trying to get loot.

[Tleki]

We have a private bidding system for non class specific items where people bid what they think the item is worth and then take the second highest bid, add 1 and that is what the winner pays.

Why the 2nd highest bid instead of the first? And why add one point to that bid? And why is it private?

Most of the reasonings behind the specifics of various DKP systems elude me.

[oiseaux]

I think DKP can work on paper, but honestly no matter what you do there is always some sort of issue. The guild I was in was going fine for the longest time and then suddenly to help with 'attendence' started adding all these rules. dkp penalties if you didnt roll on something, DKP tax if you bid on too many items, DKP penalty if you didn't bid on a set piece, 'incentives' to go raiding, DKP for donating 10k gold, DKP for giving up your spot on a raid, DKP for buying mats for potions... It went from a way to track attendence and loot distribution to punishing you for wanting to just play the game how you wanted to play it. If you didn't donate gold or items you got left behind by everyone who just spent $3000 real dollars on IGE gold. sick...

If there is someone in your guild willing to track all this that is great, but what happens when that person gets tired of the game and no longer wants do it? Will anyone stand up to do it. Do your members trust you to do a silent bid? Do you trust your other officers to not setup deals with their friends and pals in the guild? Who will have access to the DKP mod and system that may be able to change the point values. Will your officers take offense if you do not give them this access?

So many things can go wrong with DKP and any other system. This can happen with other systems as well, but DKP just takes so much calculating and manipulating for it to work right.

That's my thoughts on dkp for the record haha

[xpolockx]

Yeah, it really all depends on the trustworthiness of people in the guild. For Void, we have 1 person who regularly parses the dkp, but both our guild master and raid leader both check it after every raid. Plus, anyone can download the HOB dkp mod I linked in my first post on this thread, so there's no question as to how much an item costs nor is there any way for it to be changed on the site without everyone who checks the site and has the mod to know.

As a very large guild however, we have the advantage of not having to push all that hard for attendance - if by chance we lose one of our core raiders, we can pick up another from our vast pool of resources, without having to recruit.

It's true, DKP is a rough system, no matter what method you use. If you can get mostly people together that aren't greedy and work together for progression (and not just purple fever) than it is definitely a lot easier It's what makes me love my guild

[oiseaux]

...

It's true, DKP is a rough system, no matter what method you use. If you can get mostly people together that aren't greedy and work together for progression (and not just purple fever) than it is definitely a lot easier It's what makes me love my guild

Exactly, it comes down to the people in the guild. If they are greedy no system will fix that and creating too many rules to try will only force those to leave who are genuinely not greedy.

[heartless_]

DKP is a solution to bad game design. DKP users are just sad excuses for gamers.

All in my humble opinion. Flame away.

[Rollie]

Come on heart, give us more flame bait than that ;p

You're a good writer, back up your statements! Why do you feel that way?