Average/top players online in a guild
-
Kanegasi
Average/top players online in a guild
I've been looking at some guilds on a recent server of mine and I noticed that even though the armory provides total characters and WR provides active over the last 30 days, I think two stats would be great for guilds: the average players online, and the highest amount online, simultaneously. These two stats should help weed out alts and provide a more accurate activity measurement. I figure a simple count of every guild seen at the end of every scan should give a quick number. It would probably help the accuracy if only your current server is counted. It wouldn't make sense to count any CRZ'd people since you didn't see the rest of their guild.
-
bringoutyourdead
- Forums Admin & general flunky
- Posts: 1432
- Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:11 pm
- Location: Texas, USA
I am sorry but after multiple reads of your message I am still confused.
What exactly are you trying to say?
Please indicate either what you think is wrong with the site or site data OR what you think can be improved with the site or site data.
Examples can help get your point across.
Be aware that warcraftrealms.com continues to have issues with the correct display of Guild information.
While the CensusPlus addon correctly tracks the relationship between Character & Realms AND related Guild and the Guild's Realm, the site has yet to be updated to process the new data.
The site still assumes that any guild associated with a character MUST be on the same realm as the character.
As what was historically true.
Since the Guild - Guild Realm relation was always implicit and not explicit, how that relationship is recorded and displayed isn't straight forward in the database tables and processing code.
The above problem is the reason I finally started a personal development setup of the site.
Though that has created issues of its own since my notebook computer IS NOT warcraftrealms.com.
Different operation system.. on up.. all the support structures are similar but not the same.
Since that is the case, I keep having to tweak the code to make things work in my environment... which if I am not very careful can cause problems as I move changes back to the live site.
To be honest while I want to get the Guild stuff displaying correctly on the site...
since it is very time consuming to figure things out...
and I have lots of other things to work on..
Recent priority on this project has been commensurate to my pay level... i.e. Zero.
What exactly are you trying to say?
Please indicate either what you think is wrong with the site or site data OR what you think can be improved with the site or site data.
Examples can help get your point across.
Be aware that warcraftrealms.com continues to have issues with the correct display of Guild information.
While the CensusPlus addon correctly tracks the relationship between Character & Realms AND related Guild and the Guild's Realm, the site has yet to be updated to process the new data.
The site still assumes that any guild associated with a character MUST be on the same realm as the character.
As what was historically true.
Since the Guild - Guild Realm relation was always implicit and not explicit, how that relationship is recorded and displayed isn't straight forward in the database tables and processing code.
The above problem is the reason I finally started a personal development setup of the site.
Though that has created issues of its own since my notebook computer IS NOT warcraftrealms.com.
Different operation system.. on up.. all the support structures are similar but not the same.
Since that is the case, I keep having to tweak the code to make things work in my environment... which if I am not very careful can cause problems as I move changes back to the live site.
To be honest while I want to get the Guild stuff displaying correctly on the site...
since it is very time consuming to figure things out...
and I have lots of other things to work on..
Recent priority on this project has been commensurate to my pay level... i.e. Zero.
-
Kanegasi
This is a suggestion for data improvement.
At the end of every scan, count how many characters seen in each guild during the scan to get an idea of the number of active players. This could be used to calculate average amount of players online and/or keep a record of the most players seen online over the last 30 days.
For example, say a guild has 100 characters but it's really 10 players with 10 alts each. This new count would be able to closely reflect those 10 online players.
At the end of every scan, count how many characters seen in each guild during the scan to get an idea of the number of active players. This could be used to calculate average amount of players online and/or keep a record of the most players seen online over the last 30 days.
For example, say a guild has 100 characters but it's really 10 players with 10 alts each. This new count would be able to closely reflect those 10 online players.
-
bringoutyourdead
- Forums Admin & general flunky
- Posts: 1432
- Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:11 pm
- Location: Texas, USA
Unfortunately I can see a failure mode.
Using your example.
You see 10 characters in the guild... and assume 10 players.
But considering the way Blizzard processes /who requests and the addon processing requirements due to those limits, Census runs take a finite but not almost zero time.
We could just have seen a census run that caught 10 characters in the guild and in reality, it could be only 1 or 2 players quickly logging in and out of their characters.. maybe to check mailbox status.
The census run still sees 10 characters... but we have no way to know if it is 10 players or only 1 player with 10 characters spread out from level 100 -> 20 and we caught all of them in the run.
Using your example.
You see 10 characters in the guild... and assume 10 players.
But considering the way Blizzard processes /who requests and the addon processing requirements due to those limits, Census runs take a finite but not almost zero time.
We could just have seen a census run that caught 10 characters in the guild and in reality, it could be only 1 or 2 players quickly logging in and out of their characters.. maybe to check mailbox status.
The census run still sees 10 characters... but we have no way to know if it is 10 players or only 1 player with 10 characters spread out from level 100 -> 20 and we caught all of them in the run.
-
Kanegasi
I don't see that as a failure, it's more of a level of inaccuracy. The question is how acceptable can it be. All of the data gathered by this site isn't perfect, and even if this activity count can be gamed, it wouldn't be on a wide scale. Given the finite time needed to perform a scan and the natural activity of players, as you describe, we may never get an accurate activity count for some guilds, especially guilds filled with leveling altoholics. It would be a fascinating statistic for the majority of guilds.
-
bringoutyourdead
- Forums Admin & general flunky
- Posts: 1432
- Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:11 pm
- Location: Texas, USA
Presentation of Data which has an indeterminate level of accuracy is by my definition a failure.
Most people stopping by the site to look at WoW character data don't have a clue as to the validity of the data and will take it as gospel.
It is a waste of time and a disservice to present potentially bad data.
Again if you have no way to determine the accuracy, you have to consider it bad data.
Unfortunately at this time anything on this website concerning Guild data is in my opinion bad data.
There are good data points, but just as likely bad data points.
However having said that and seeing the potential for interesting data.. I would consider a counter suggestion.
Since the addon does not suffer the incorrect handling of Guild data, and since the addon is by definition open source.
I would suggest that this could be integrated into the addon.
There will need to be certain integration agreements to stop fragmenting of the addon code.
While other addons have been forked and taken a different direction, CensusPlus (official) must be the only source of data processed by this site.
Here are some interface suggestions:
The options panel would have a account wide checkbox and possibly CCO radio buttons to handle enabling this feature.
The main window Guild names section probably should display the stats as a tool-tip for each of the guilds named.
If the option is enabled, a new action button above the Guild name section would enable(display) only if a census is not actively running.
That action button would open a new display window (like the options button does currently.)
What is displayed in that new window?..
I don't know - but that gives visual display room that doesn't interfere with the current display.
Possibly something like data from:
Latest census run
Today's Census runs
This weeks Census runs
Latest 30 days run
The new code would need to be handled as a load on demand module to limit the performance impact on CensusPlus.
If the code is enabled then it would only run on signal of Census completion.
I would suggest looking at the code in place to do internal search of data on demand.
(see the code that handles the "/census who 'name' " command)
I think a new command "/census Gstats 'name' " would be appropriate to allow the data to display in the WoW client chat window.
Assuming the above, I see no reason why this extension couldn't be bundled into the CensusPlus distribution.
And later as time and resources permit, with the insight gained from these new stats, we might be able to add this to the website.
And while you or anyone else for that matter are looking at the code, I am always open to improvements that fit the goals and philosophy of WarcraftRealms.com
I will be the first to say that this ten year old project code is neither elegant nor tight.
It does though fit the most important goal... it works.
While I have/had plans to tighten up the code.. best practice coding and all.. WoW, WarcraftRealms.com and CensusPlus are not my real life top priorities.
I work on it whan I can and.. Ooh! Shinies!
Most people stopping by the site to look at WoW character data don't have a clue as to the validity of the data and will take it as gospel.
It is a waste of time and a disservice to present potentially bad data.
Again if you have no way to determine the accuracy, you have to consider it bad data.
Unfortunately at this time anything on this website concerning Guild data is in my opinion bad data.
There are good data points, but just as likely bad data points.
However having said that and seeing the potential for interesting data.. I would consider a counter suggestion.
Since the addon does not suffer the incorrect handling of Guild data, and since the addon is by definition open source.
I would suggest that this could be integrated into the addon.
There will need to be certain integration agreements to stop fragmenting of the addon code.
While other addons have been forked and taken a different direction, CensusPlus (official) must be the only source of data processed by this site.
Here are some interface suggestions:
The options panel would have a account wide checkbox and possibly CCO radio buttons to handle enabling this feature.
The main window Guild names section probably should display the stats as a tool-tip for each of the guilds named.
If the option is enabled, a new action button above the Guild name section would enable(display) only if a census is not actively running.
That action button would open a new display window (like the options button does currently.)
What is displayed in that new window?..
I don't know - but that gives visual display room that doesn't interfere with the current display.
Possibly something like data from:
Latest census run
Today's Census runs
This weeks Census runs
Latest 30 days run
The new code would need to be handled as a load on demand module to limit the performance impact on CensusPlus.
If the code is enabled then it would only run on signal of Census completion.
I would suggest looking at the code in place to do internal search of data on demand.
(see the code that handles the "/census who 'name' " command)
I think a new command "/census Gstats 'name' " would be appropriate to allow the data to display in the WoW client chat window.
Assuming the above, I see no reason why this extension couldn't be bundled into the CensusPlus distribution.
And later as time and resources permit, with the insight gained from these new stats, we might be able to add this to the website.
And while you or anyone else for that matter are looking at the code, I am always open to improvements that fit the goals and philosophy of WarcraftRealms.com
I will be the first to say that this ten year old project code is neither elegant nor tight.
It does though fit the most important goal... it works.
While I have/had plans to tighten up the code.. best practice coding and all.. WoW, WarcraftRealms.com and CensusPlus are not my real life top priorities.
I work on it whan I can and.. Ooh! Shinies!